The Promised Post
First, a little history.
We moved to Idaho when I was four. We began attending the congregation that my grandparents were at. My grandmother was a secretary for the pastor. I don't really remember too much about this time, because I was very young at the beginning. I do still have one friend from then, but overall I was a bit shy and withdrawn. By the time I was about 10, I was starting to be more interested in books than people. When we had been there for about 6 to 8 years, my parents had some good connections within the congregation. Then we realized that the pastor was definitely untrustworthy, especially where finances were concerned. I don't know who first drew our attention to this, but from my (limited!) understanding, it was an ongoing problem. My grandma was able to tell us more about it, and she soon quit her job as a secretary there.
We next went church hunting in the area where we were living at the time, which is where we are now. We found a nice, little place and started to attend. I was old enough at that point, and I volunteered in the children's church. My mother played her flute. But something just didn't work out. I know the least about this place, because we weren't there for very long. My father says that the young pastor was uneducated and his children were out of control. Our family met another family who taught their kids at home here. They were not particularly well received in this congregation, which may have contributed to both of our families leaving so quickly.
We had 'home church' meetings with this family and two or three others (depending on availability) for the next year and a half or so. Then, when some of the other families began to discontinue coming to the meetings, the first family invited us to a church they had just found. It had about 50 attendees and was meeting in an elementary school. We were very excited about this new opportunity. We became full-fledged members. We attended that church for about 8 years, I think. Up 'till the end of this year, anyway. I started this blog about when we first began to seriously consider never going back.
Nascent congregations are usually terrific places to be for the first few years of their existence: you still know almost everyone who attends and no one is very uptight about the order of service or the exact music. However, in our society now, growth is the ultimate goal. If your numbers do not grow, you are obviously doing something wrong. Once growth happens, suddenly there is a staff, multiple programs to attract new members, and a definite hierarchy is set in process which relies on fallible human integrity. Too often compromise is one of the first new members of a growing church. This relates to the consumer mentality I've read about, where churches will do whatever it takes to get more members.
My father was elected to the stewards board about 5 years ago. After he had served a year, my sister was diagnosed with leukemia. He resigned from the board, because he simply did not have the time to devote to anything extra at the time. She died 2 years later. After a year or so, they re-elected him to the board. Our congregation was growing phenomenally, and we had been given a small building by another congregation that could no longer use it. Of course, the next step was obvious. We needed to build our own building! So we did. We moved into it a year ago.
After we moved into the new building, the staff began to put pressure on the board of stewards. My father resisted this effort, and finally wrote a letter stating his objections to what they were wanting, and offering to resign if they decided to persist. In his opinion, the staff wanted to spend a significant amount of money in a way that they had promised the congregation that they wouldn't. He felt they could not do so without first discussing it with the congregation. That idea was resisted, because the staff realized that such a request might not be very well received. He then had to leave for China on a business trip. While he was gone, the board and staff held a meeting and officially accepted his resignation, in the process portraying him as a trouble-maker.
My mother was at home, and she received phone calls from some of our friends who knew what had happened. She became a bit upset about the whole thing, and when my dad returned (a week later) he told all of us children that we were not going to be attending on Sundays; at least not until he had a chance to speak to the pastor and assistant pastor and see if he could straighten anything/everything out. I took myself off the lists for things I had been volunteering for, and we have only been back as a family one time. My dad received a phone call from the pastor, and as he thought that was a good sign, he went back one other time.
He has not received any other communications from anyone from the staff or board to my knowledge. They seem perfectly fine with letting us go in order to keep face. The other family who introduced us to this congregation had already become a bit disenchanted when they were again slighted.
It has only been about a month since we were pretty sure we were gone for good. We were originally thinking about looking for another place, but we have been reconsidering that in the past few weeks.
I keep saying 'we,' because my mother in particular is very open with me about how they are tending, and I am also old enough to make my own decisions along these lines! Always guided by older and wiser heads, of course.
We began the first efforts toward once again meeting with other like-minded families last Sunday. Singing, brunch, and good conversation! There wasn't anyone my age around, but I'm now able to converse with adults, so I had a good time too. We discussed the 'church format,' including the cookie-cutters for 'pastors,' 'Sunday school,' 'sermons,' and 'fellowship.' The only one of those words you will find in the Bible is 'fellowship,' and the rules there for how and when you have to have it do not coincide with the church format most congregations follow.
In a typical church you come in, sing, greet other people, listen to announcements, give/take an offering, listen to a sermon, greet other people, and leave. How does this line up with what we ought to do?
Singing: We (now I mean the two parents of the family we had brunch with and my parents and my self) all agreed that this is our favorite part of any church service. The power and unity found in glorifying God together is greater than just about anything else on this earth. My mother, for one, would be perfectly satisfied with heaven even if all it was was one eternal song service. But heaven is a subject for another time.
Greet other people: Okay, so this -- both after singing and after church -- is supposed to be your 'fellowship' time. It may be just us, but haven't you ever felt that 5 minutes a little tight to take kids to Sunday school, refresh your coffee so you don't fall asleep during the sermon, and have a meaningful conversation with all six people who are sitting around you -- especially when they are most likely complete strangers? And then, after church, I don't really know anyone who isn't straining to go home and eat something! It's dinner time, doncha know!
Listen to announcements: These usually have to do with committees, events, and other functions that the 'church' feels obligated to provide and you feel obligated to attend. I'll expand on this a bit later.
Give/take an offering: There are many different reasons we give money.
- We are supposed to support those who minister to us.
- We feel obligated.
- We want to give to missions and support people who are struggling.
- We want a tax break -- okay, that's a bit tongue in cheek.
The tithe, or tenth, is from when God told the Israelites to give the temple a tenth of all their produce every year. In 1 Corinthians 1:7 it says 'So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.' There is no room for making people feel guilty if we feel they are not giving enough. We are neither required to give a tenth, nor limited to that. As for missions, is this really an effective way to give? Sometimes people may give just so they don't have to think about it. Once they have tithed, it's no longer their problem. Personally, I appreciated the fashion in which this was approached at the congregation we left. They had two stationary boxes where you could place your gift. However, this did not eliminate all problems: when there are people who put their names on the offering they make, there is a record of amounts and who gave what. This is supposed to be for tax purposes, but even a congregation is still a human organization, and humans with human feelings and prejudices are placed in positions to know more than they probably should. My father tells me the tax break is insignificant, so I can certainly see why people would choose to honor what Jesus said about giving in private.
Listen to a sermon: The position of authority that a pastor has in a traditional format is not justified anywhere in the New Testament. The roles of elders and deacons are outlined, and Timothy is represented as a young pastor, but I do not believe that he is described the way a modern pastor would be. Our type of pastor seems to be a sort of relic from the Catholic Church. Too many times a pastor is placed in between the congregation and God. With counseling sessions, it is even possible to 'confess' to your pastor! I think -- and I know this is an ongoing problem throughout the world -- that people use church services and the sermon as a replacement for personal Bible study. They sit and listen to a pastor who will teach on a text or topic, tell a few jokes, and philosophize with a bit of worldly wisdom everyone can relate to.
Again, as soon as the service is over, everyone hurries home to relax, watch football, and recover from dressing up.
And Sunday school! Take the children away from their poor, exhausted parents, let them smear glue all over themselves, feed them candy, and tell them a cute little story about how the animals went in two by two. Everyone knows children have to have the Bible in teeny-tiny little doses, or they won't understand it. Now, in my family, my mother has consistently read to us straight from the Bible almost every day of our lives. As a result, my siblings come home and can explain exactly how the Sunday school lesson was oversimplified or even incorrect.
Back to the events and committees. In every cookie-cutter church, there is a trend to have a committee or group for everything and everyone. I think this is an effort to have everyone involved in some kind of ministry and to make up for the lack of fellowship on Sunday morning. There is the youth group, which is usually led by a twenty-something who is either fresh out of college or still in school. I have even heard youth group characterized as an escape from you parents! You can imagine how well that went over with my parents. Now the church is taking on a semblance of public school, becoming a place where you can know better than your parents. Children and youth should learn how to respect adults, not regard them as a burden. Youth group may provide a valuable service for those whose parents are not Christians; but I can't help but feel that they would be better served by finding mentors among adults than by joining in a large group of typically uncontrolled teenagers.
There are committees and study groups for college aged young adults, young married people, women, men, single people, people with kids, people without kids, people who like to ride motorcycles, people who like to eat donuts, and just about anything else you can find in which you are different. Doesn't this seem to promote a type of division? It's great to have things in common with other people, but a balance is needed. I happen to attend a not-in-college-but-not-married group myself, and the father of the family we had brunch with had a great way to describe this kind of a group. He called it 'the Great P of I.' Any guesses? That means 'the Great Pooling of Ignorance,' and it just about describes how I feel most of the time. I have some fairly good friends in this group, but the very description of the group displays how very unbalanced it is in terms of experience and knowledge. "Hey, lets all get together and talk about things we don't understand. A couple of self-help books, and we're all set. So, do any of you understand this passage? No? Huh, me neither. Let's move on." Argh!!!
So the consensus was that our system is seriously messed up. But, can we change it? Mr.-whose-house-we-went-to-for-brunch pointed out the verse where Jesus says not to put new wine into old wineskins, or both will be lost. One lesson we gained from that parallel was that God still values the people who are in this system. In no way do I mean to imply that they are not valid, saved-by-the-grace-of-God Christians. It is simply that, especially in view of our experiences, we wonder if there is a better way.
We are going to continue to make an effort to regularly fellowship with other Christians. Thankfully, we have an abundance of Christian friends who are not dependent on our attending with a certain congregation. I'll let you know how it goes.
So, instead of lots of little posts, how about one big one?
With great expectations (and amazed at the length of this!),
Heidi
We moved to Idaho when I was four. We began attending the congregation that my grandparents were at. My grandmother was a secretary for the pastor. I don't really remember too much about this time, because I was very young at the beginning. I do still have one friend from then, but overall I was a bit shy and withdrawn. By the time I was about 10, I was starting to be more interested in books than people. When we had been there for about 6 to 8 years, my parents had some good connections within the congregation. Then we realized that the pastor was definitely untrustworthy, especially where finances were concerned. I don't know who first drew our attention to this, but from my (limited!) understanding, it was an ongoing problem. My grandma was able to tell us more about it, and she soon quit her job as a secretary there.
We next went church hunting in the area where we were living at the time, which is where we are now. We found a nice, little place and started to attend. I was old enough at that point, and I volunteered in the children's church. My mother played her flute. But something just didn't work out. I know the least about this place, because we weren't there for very long. My father says that the young pastor was uneducated and his children were out of control. Our family met another family who taught their kids at home here. They were not particularly well received in this congregation, which may have contributed to both of our families leaving so quickly.
We had 'home church' meetings with this family and two or three others (depending on availability) for the next year and a half or so. Then, when some of the other families began to discontinue coming to the meetings, the first family invited us to a church they had just found. It had about 50 attendees and was meeting in an elementary school. We were very excited about this new opportunity. We became full-fledged members. We attended that church for about 8 years, I think. Up 'till the end of this year, anyway. I started this blog about when we first began to seriously consider never going back.
Nascent congregations are usually terrific places to be for the first few years of their existence: you still know almost everyone who attends and no one is very uptight about the order of service or the exact music. However, in our society now, growth is the ultimate goal. If your numbers do not grow, you are obviously doing something wrong. Once growth happens, suddenly there is a staff, multiple programs to attract new members, and a definite hierarchy is set in process which relies on fallible human integrity. Too often compromise is one of the first new members of a growing church. This relates to the consumer mentality I've read about, where churches will do whatever it takes to get more members.
My father was elected to the stewards board about 5 years ago. After he had served a year, my sister was diagnosed with leukemia. He resigned from the board, because he simply did not have the time to devote to anything extra at the time. She died 2 years later. After a year or so, they re-elected him to the board. Our congregation was growing phenomenally, and we had been given a small building by another congregation that could no longer use it. Of course, the next step was obvious. We needed to build our own building! So we did. We moved into it a year ago.
After we moved into the new building, the staff began to put pressure on the board of stewards. My father resisted this effort, and finally wrote a letter stating his objections to what they were wanting, and offering to resign if they decided to persist. In his opinion, the staff wanted to spend a significant amount of money in a way that they had promised the congregation that they wouldn't. He felt they could not do so without first discussing it with the congregation. That idea was resisted, because the staff realized that such a request might not be very well received. He then had to leave for China on a business trip. While he was gone, the board and staff held a meeting and officially accepted his resignation, in the process portraying him as a trouble-maker.
My mother was at home, and she received phone calls from some of our friends who knew what had happened. She became a bit upset about the whole thing, and when my dad returned (a week later) he told all of us children that we were not going to be attending on Sundays; at least not until he had a chance to speak to the pastor and assistant pastor and see if he could straighten anything/everything out. I took myself off the lists for things I had been volunteering for, and we have only been back as a family one time. My dad received a phone call from the pastor, and as he thought that was a good sign, he went back one other time.
He has not received any other communications from anyone from the staff or board to my knowledge. They seem perfectly fine with letting us go in order to keep face. The other family who introduced us to this congregation had already become a bit disenchanted when they were again slighted.
It has only been about a month since we were pretty sure we were gone for good. We were originally thinking about looking for another place, but we have been reconsidering that in the past few weeks.
I keep saying 'we,' because my mother in particular is very open with me about how they are tending, and I am also old enough to make my own decisions along these lines! Always guided by older and wiser heads, of course.
We began the first efforts toward once again meeting with other like-minded families last Sunday. Singing, brunch, and good conversation! There wasn't anyone my age around, but I'm now able to converse with adults, so I had a good time too. We discussed the 'church format,' including the cookie-cutters for 'pastors,' 'Sunday school,' 'sermons,' and 'fellowship.' The only one of those words you will find in the Bible is 'fellowship,' and the rules there for how and when you have to have it do not coincide with the church format most congregations follow.
In a typical church you come in, sing, greet other people, listen to announcements, give/take an offering, listen to a sermon, greet other people, and leave. How does this line up with what we ought to do?
Singing: We (now I mean the two parents of the family we had brunch with and my parents and my self) all agreed that this is our favorite part of any church service. The power and unity found in glorifying God together is greater than just about anything else on this earth. My mother, for one, would be perfectly satisfied with heaven even if all it was was one eternal song service. But heaven is a subject for another time.
Greet other people: Okay, so this -- both after singing and after church -- is supposed to be your 'fellowship' time. It may be just us, but haven't you ever felt that 5 minutes a little tight to take kids to Sunday school, refresh your coffee so you don't fall asleep during the sermon, and have a meaningful conversation with all six people who are sitting around you -- especially when they are most likely complete strangers? And then, after church, I don't really know anyone who isn't straining to go home and eat something! It's dinner time, doncha know!
Listen to announcements: These usually have to do with committees, events, and other functions that the 'church' feels obligated to provide and you feel obligated to attend. I'll expand on this a bit later.
Give/take an offering: There are many different reasons we give money.
- We are supposed to support those who minister to us.
- We feel obligated.
- We want to give to missions and support people who are struggling.
- We want a tax break -- okay, that's a bit tongue in cheek.
The tithe, or tenth, is from when God told the Israelites to give the temple a tenth of all their produce every year. In 1 Corinthians 1:7 it says 'So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.' There is no room for making people feel guilty if we feel they are not giving enough. We are neither required to give a tenth, nor limited to that. As for missions, is this really an effective way to give? Sometimes people may give just so they don't have to think about it. Once they have tithed, it's no longer their problem. Personally, I appreciated the fashion in which this was approached at the congregation we left. They had two stationary boxes where you could place your gift. However, this did not eliminate all problems: when there are people who put their names on the offering they make, there is a record of amounts and who gave what. This is supposed to be for tax purposes, but even a congregation is still a human organization, and humans with human feelings and prejudices are placed in positions to know more than they probably should. My father tells me the tax break is insignificant, so I can certainly see why people would choose to honor what Jesus said about giving in private.
Listen to a sermon: The position of authority that a pastor has in a traditional format is not justified anywhere in the New Testament. The roles of elders and deacons are outlined, and Timothy is represented as a young pastor, but I do not believe that he is described the way a modern pastor would be. Our type of pastor seems to be a sort of relic from the Catholic Church. Too many times a pastor is placed in between the congregation and God. With counseling sessions, it is even possible to 'confess' to your pastor! I think -- and I know this is an ongoing problem throughout the world -- that people use church services and the sermon as a replacement for personal Bible study. They sit and listen to a pastor who will teach on a text or topic, tell a few jokes, and philosophize with a bit of worldly wisdom everyone can relate to.
Again, as soon as the service is over, everyone hurries home to relax, watch football, and recover from dressing up.
And Sunday school! Take the children away from their poor, exhausted parents, let them smear glue all over themselves, feed them candy, and tell them a cute little story about how the animals went in two by two. Everyone knows children have to have the Bible in teeny-tiny little doses, or they won't understand it. Now, in my family, my mother has consistently read to us straight from the Bible almost every day of our lives. As a result, my siblings come home and can explain exactly how the Sunday school lesson was oversimplified or even incorrect.
Back to the events and committees. In every cookie-cutter church, there is a trend to have a committee or group for everything and everyone. I think this is an effort to have everyone involved in some kind of ministry and to make up for the lack of fellowship on Sunday morning. There is the youth group, which is usually led by a twenty-something who is either fresh out of college or still in school. I have even heard youth group characterized as an escape from you parents! You can imagine how well that went over with my parents. Now the church is taking on a semblance of public school, becoming a place where you can know better than your parents. Children and youth should learn how to respect adults, not regard them as a burden. Youth group may provide a valuable service for those whose parents are not Christians; but I can't help but feel that they would be better served by finding mentors among adults than by joining in a large group of typically uncontrolled teenagers.
There are committees and study groups for college aged young adults, young married people, women, men, single people, people with kids, people without kids, people who like to ride motorcycles, people who like to eat donuts, and just about anything else you can find in which you are different. Doesn't this seem to promote a type of division? It's great to have things in common with other people, but a balance is needed. I happen to attend a not-in-college-but-not-married group myself, and the father of the family we had brunch with had a great way to describe this kind of a group. He called it 'the Great P of I.' Any guesses? That means 'the Great Pooling of Ignorance,' and it just about describes how I feel most of the time. I have some fairly good friends in this group, but the very description of the group displays how very unbalanced it is in terms of experience and knowledge. "Hey, lets all get together and talk about things we don't understand. A couple of self-help books, and we're all set. So, do any of you understand this passage? No? Huh, me neither. Let's move on." Argh!!!
So the consensus was that our system is seriously messed up. But, can we change it? Mr.-whose-house-we-went-to-for-brunch pointed out the verse where Jesus says not to put new wine into old wineskins, or both will be lost. One lesson we gained from that parallel was that God still values the people who are in this system. In no way do I mean to imply that they are not valid, saved-by-the-grace-of-God Christians. It is simply that, especially in view of our experiences, we wonder if there is a better way.
We are going to continue to make an effort to regularly fellowship with other Christians. Thankfully, we have an abundance of Christian friends who are not dependent on our attending with a certain congregation. I'll let you know how it goes.
So, instead of lots of little posts, how about one big one?
With great expectations (and amazed at the length of this!),
Heidi
posted by Anemone Flynn | 10/26/2005 08:52:00 PM
11 Comments:
well i read all of that and found it wonderfully insightful, you shouldn't doubt the wisdom God has given you ( im just guessing you do, sometimes).
Anyway, you managed to some up all my jumbled thoughts on church very succintly ( i did a word count, 2434, which means you took 10 mins)
You're so right, and perhaps if we try and look at going to house churches more. And as we grow plant more ones, instead of just growing really big.
It's always amazed me why we split up every demographic possible in church.
In mine in auckland, there was a boys sunday school class just for my age group. I was kept separate from anyone else who was a girl or slightly older or younger until i was about 16.
Then there are the singles 20s groups, the guys groups, the professional young people groups, the vocationally similiar groups, the older ladies groups, its almost as if we are scared of feeling different from each other so we split every up and then its no wonder we feel unwelcome in our churches because we dont know how to relate.
anyway, nice post, i'll be reading with interest where you go from here.
I think you did a good job writing this. I am proud of you for being humble about your father's editorial suggestions. I even learned a new word. :-)
All glory to God for giving us His word and being patient with us as we must constantly choose between His wisdom and man's. The choice is obvious, but sometimes we are slow about which is which.
One clarification, though. Upset in spirit that I was in how your dad was being treated, God gave me strength to resist fleshly urges to react in kind. He does use all things for the good of those who love Him. I feel further refined!
Thank you, Mommy. I love you.
Heidi
Hi Heidi's Momma!!!! Wow, I feel so close to you guys right now!
Anyway, Heidi, this is an amazing post. Your eloquence never fails to amaze me. You are seriously gifted in speech, girl-frieeeend.
Yes, yes, yes, I agree with what you've said. And I never thought of the old wine/new wine truth as pertaining in that way to the church. But, of course, it makes sense. Additionally, your statement "that God still values the people who are in this system," is much appreciated. I also have a hard time with people who say there's only ONE way to gather for fellowship.
I think it's interesting how different personalities like to worship and fellowship. For example, I love when things come together on their own - sitting around a dining room table talking, sharing verses, hopping up to sing next to the piano...but that reminds me of when we worked on Via Dolorosa. I learned something of meeting together regularly, actually scheduling fellowship. It is a sweet memory even though we only were able to sing it once!
Ah, yes, and I often wish I could be more spontaneous. I think of things, but then it's too much effort to actually do them or I'm scared of what people will think or I just plain can't afford it! That last one is happening more and more often recently.
And I do fondly recall singing with you. I've been practicing some more songs. Watermark, The Purest Place, 'Captivate Us,' 'Mended,' 'Holy Roar,' and several others. Come sing with me!
Heidi
Well, I've read back over what I said, and I do see how it looks as though we were leaving because of the offence. I think that if they had made an effort to admit wrongdoing in the matter, we would have been more likely to go back. However, this was an expression of some things we had already seen tending toward our previous experiences.
I think the main reason we left entirely was that we did not trust them. My father in particular mentioned that if we couldn't trust them with our money, we couldn't in good conscience tithe to them. And if we couldn't responsibly give them money and support them financially at all, then could we really continue to attend their services and give the appearance of support. How could we mislead others?
Since then we've begun to put our problems with the system into more concrete terms. Now, even if they apologized, changed everything, and oh, I don't know, just began to look at their responsibilities differently, we still would not want to go back to that system. We've had fellowship again with the family from last Sunday and another family we've known for a long time, and I continue to believe that this is better.
When a congregation gets past a certain size, it just seems to lose it's cohesiveness. Everyone gets excited about how great it is that it's growing, and how can we attract people. They forget that if hordes of people are running to your church, that's not necessarily a good thing. When I think about the kinds of things that people are attracted to, I begin to think that it's merely an entertainment and a way for them to say, "yeah, I'm a Christian, I go to church regularly."
Don't worry about honestly discussing this. It's not too terribly easy to offend me, and I realize you don't know our family.
i will read this post soon, but I wanted to say thanks for stopping by. I notice you love books! SO DO I! we have all 15 sets of the Lamplighters? are those familiar to you? being homeschooled they may be. www.lamplighterpublishing.com
Homemakerang
I cant wait to check our your blog.
Well, Lamplighters sounded familiar, but when I went to the website I didn't recognize any of them. Maybe I've seen an advertisement of thiers in one of the Christian magazines we have floating around at home!
Heidi
Hey, Funk Master! Here's for a rousing discussion:
Small churches vs. big
I think that no matter what size a church is, the traditional institution of the church is not fulfilling God's design. We are supposed to be the body of Christ, not the divided segments. The Church is supposed to be a living organism, with Jesus as the head and the rest of us functioning together. Most people who attend a church don't do anything. Various members may sing, operate the slide projector, teach the Sunday school classes, and give money. But the main function of the modern church is to give people a place to go and listen to a pastor, have a place to claim as 'their church,' and to replace personal study with an easily digestible 'Bible pill' each week.
entertainment
What entertainment did the apostles use to lure people in? Do you really think that any average Joe is going to say, 'hey, there's music over there and I'm bored. I don't have anything to do at 8am on a Sunday morning, why not go and listen to a guy I don't agree with talk for 45 minutes?' I think it can be shown that most new members of a congregation are migratory Christians from other congregations. This is competition, not overall growth. I agree that non-Christians will visit a church because someone they know goes there, but that is not where they find the examples to lead them to salvation. It's their friends and neighbors who provide the impetus that leads them to desire to change their lives.
purpose
I don't think that evangelizing is the 'sole purpose of the church.' We are instructed to comfort each other and edify each other (I Thessalonians 5:11). We are supposed to fellowship with other Christians, pray together, eat together, and discuss. In the NT people spontaneously gathered together, each person used their gifts equally with the rest. Elders and deacons were men who were recognized by the community as Godly men who were the head of their own, controlled households. They, as a group, were the men to whom you could go for direction, not a single pastor.
financial/political situation
Do you think that the apostles wanted a large church in order to get more funding for their projects? The purposes of offerings in the Bible were to support the apostles as they traveled and to assist the honestly poor. Nowadays, millions of dollars are wasted on building and maintaining edifices and programs. Where were the youth programs, the community outreach, and the church-sponsored day-care systems in the New Testament? The apostles were obviously not as progressive as we are today. They relied on example and personal witness to draw people to learn about God. When Jesus gives the command in Matthew, he does not say, 'go forth and teach people and then tell them to tithe so you can elevate pastors to teach them more.' No, we are all saints, ministers, and it is every single Christian's job to witness to people around him by the way he lives; it is not the job of the organized church system.
I have tried to research everything I think about how the church might function better if we followed the NT instead of relying on traditions that grew from the inclusion of pagan or secular practices. I've been reading up on the subject; and now I'm asking myself, what can I do differently? What should I do differently? And, most importantly, what does God, according to the Bible, want me to do?
Prayerfully, Heidi
Some more Biblical points to think about -
Form and function:
While there is an abundance of evidence that God cares most about the heart condition, form does affect function. Take the comparison of how many wives one man should have. God "put up" with multiple wives, but it is clear that one to one is the preferred ratio. Any one with half a brain and honesty can see why that works best for the relationships of everyone involved. Simply applying this aspect of God's model to the marriage relationship does not guarantee success. There are still significant lessons to apply. But these will be nearly impossible to apply if you don't start with the basic form of one to one. So for the body of Christ the issue is not small vs. big, it is an issue of form. We need to be careful not to superimpose our tradittions and culture on the Biblical teachings. There is no Biblical precedent for the kind of spiritual, organizationnal, or monetary authority that is claimed by boards or pastors today. It is counter-productive and harmful to the full function of the body of Christ.
The church is not a building:
And houses are quite warm and dry. Why even spend the money on the buildings? No one can reasonably argue that houses are not as good of a place to meet and definitely do much more to foster the kinds of relationships that are mutually edifiying and accountable. Why spend the money on the extra building? Why spend the the bulk of our limited rest-fellowship time listening to a lecture? Why not get right to the nitty-gritty of real relationships and dialoging about the things of God and how to make them part of how we live? Our 'modern' concept of preaching is, again, not the Biblical concept. The building is there for the convenience of the staff, for the building of their domains and positions, for their grandiose plans. Why are they not willing to let go of that?
That, of course, all ties into the idea of tithing. There are two reasons to give in the NT. One is to give to the needy and the other is for those who preach the gospel. This is stated in the context being limited to providing a living for a traveling preacher. Such a man dialogs (people get to converse, ask questions) about the gospel to lead people to spiritual birth. Sometimes he went back to check on the new believers and sometimes he wrote them helpful letters, but they became the church. In fact, Jesus rebukes the religious leaders of his day for robbing the elderly and needy in the name of giving to the temple.
It is also interesting to note that much of the tithe that God required in the OT (see Numbers and Deuteronomy) was then to be use by the actual givers in their very own celebration of worship before God. They were supposed to have a very nice party. The worship did involve sacrifices, reminding them of their sin and need for forgivness, but then they were to celebrate. As much as I like to sing, this wasn't just singing together for 10-20 minutes. This was really feasting together repeatedly throughout the year. And it was all centered around family relationships. So it is with the NT examples. When they got together, it wasn't in a artificial, religious environment. They had things to learn about how to get along, but the modern organization doesn't really lend itself to needing to get along. And no one truly encourages the 'laity' to delve into the word of God. We're not supposed to be well trained enough for that...
Programs:
There is very little substance to 99% of the institutional church's programs. They have no depth, they are busy work to make people feel like they are serving God. How can you serve a God you don't really know? These same people are too busy to spend significant time at God's feet themselves or teaching their own children. Half of a Bible verse mixed with pschobable for a few minutes on Sunday cannot take the place of parents teaching their children as they walk through life together. But the parents feel unqualified because they are not "ordained." Why is no one in the church consistent about people being in the word or teaching their own children? These are basic Biblical concepts. Only those things which are convenient to and sustaining the system are emphasized. This is not about being leagalistic. This is about following God wholeheatedly, not being ashamed of His ways of doing things, and loving to spend time with Him and talk about Him. Don't get side tracked with worldly philosophies and business models. God's ways are higher than man's and trustworthy.
"Attracting" non-believers:
What I read in the Bible says that it is the message, our love for each other, and our character that will get people's attention. It also mentions that the result might be that they don't like us because we don't do things the way they do. (see I Peter) Light exposes darkness and those who were doing things in the dark aren't necessarily happy to be exposed. Its not a mean or intentional exposure, it just happens because they see the comparison. Some people will repent, others will retaliate. It doesn't mean we believers don't 'sometimes' have fun that might attract, but we don't try to get people to come to a building. We need to be the people with the message and lives that point to Christ.
Being in the world:
Obviously there is a problem here with what that means. Again, accepting the worldly model of how and by whom children should be taught makes discussion difficult. There are plenty of opportunities to be part of the community around you and it doesn't require putting a child under the authority of someone who teaches them from an ungodly point of view for hours at a time Being in the world does not require participating in an education system that is at best questionable and at worst harmful. But this is a whole other discussion. It just slipped in during the discussion of money.
Happy discussing -
ok i kinda stopped reading halfway through coz its a mammoth amount, so i maybe repeating someone's comment.
But i believe that 'entertainment' is not going to draw people in anymore.
I honestly believe relationships are what people are looking for, and a place where they can be genuinely loved. Given that the second commandment is based around that i dont think big churhces can do that effectively (loving one another)
So i think that even though traditional structured churches will continue to have thier place in society and reach a certain person, house church movements are going to prove to be allot of common and reaching people where they are at in a far more effective way. Critical mass may even be only 20, because when does one stop feeling loved in a church. Which maybe the case for any congregation which is larger.
take dunedin for example it has about three churches of over 500 people, possibly four, a pop. of 120,000 i think yet i heard recently that we have the lowest church attendance rate in NZ ( i could be wrong) but if im right, it would probably say that growth in those four churches has been by transfer, and non-christians arent actaully being reached, and loved by those Christian around them,
good discussion,
Post a Comment
<< Home